taoist

And there I'm not ... hi Ono. Thanks again for the thread, I'll be back sometime.

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There is no taoist

USAPatriot

Taoist,

I don't think I've read so much irrelevent idealisic rubbish in at least 3 hours. Absent a usable context, you seem to be talking to hear yourself speak rather than to contribute any useful solutions. If you somehow think that demonizing US policies and laying this at our feet is going to solve anything, then by all means, shut the fuck up. You condemn us for so-called absolutism yet earlier referred to yourself as a "liberal thinker" - an absolutism in it's own form. It's simply change for the sake of change and bespeaks a distinct lack of character as well as illuminating an unstable belief system. -Rod-

Cali/Yank

BECHTEL VS. BOLIVIA

THE BOLIVIAN WATER REVOLT

In February 2000, just months after it took over control of the water system of Bolivia’s third largest city, Cochabamba, a Bechtel Corporation subsidiary hit water users with enormous price increases. These increases forced some of the poorest families in South America to literally choose between food or water. A popular uprising against the company, repressed violently by government troops, left one 17 year old boy dead and more than a hundred people wounded. In April 2000 Bechtel was finally forced to leave. In November 2001 Bechtel decided to add to the suffering it had already caused by filing a legal demand for $25 million against the Bolivian people – compensation for its lost opportunity to make future profits.

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Blame the enept and puritanical elite of the CIA and FBI and DEA,ATF.. for having their asses scratched by overlording over inconsequential, petty misgivings of the working class...instead of gathering intelligence on foriegn nations.

taoist

Rod

Thank you for your thoughts, or as much as you're capable of expressing in the light of your xenophobic right wing reactionary philosophy, Rod. The only thing readily apparent from your comments is that you failed to read my response in favor of projecting your own typically antagonistic world view.

Forgive me for noting that absent any usable context, you seem to be talking to avoid the necessity of actual thought. Forgive me as well for noting your own failure to contribute any useful solution, choosing instead to sidetrack this thread into yet another useless shouting match of which RnR has too many already. Whine somewhere else. This thread is not about you.

The context, as you seem to have missed, was a response to Pandora. "Shut the fuck up" I would submit, is a fellow traveler with the identification of dissent and treason that lies at the heart of my earlier comment.

Identification of liberal thought with absolutism is yet another hypocritical Fox Spews and Rush Limbaugh-inspired pre-emptive attack on fair and balanced opinion. It is the identification of non-partisan with partisan; the idea that tolerance is a form of intolerance. It is utterly devoid of objective truth. It is the attempt to bastardize debate with jingoism, to dilute the currency by artificially inflating the forum with words bereft of meaning yet filling space regardless.

"Demonizing"? Would you care to back that up by quoting an actual demonization, or are we to take your word for it? I do not accept your demonization of my comments unchallenged, and most decidedly not within the context of a thread devoted to exposition of the middle path. Do not mistake my tolerance of your opinion with lack of strong conviction of the essential wrong-headedness of your vituperation of concepts beyond your ken.

No, Rod, as far as I can find any meaning within your references to change, I remind you that the word liberal is synonymous with freedom, and not with anti-conservatism. In this case, I am speaking of conservation of the focus on individual freedom that lies at the heart of our democracy. Far from change for the sake of change, I would see a return to the core strength of representative government that gave rise to our pre-eminent position in the world in the hope of seeing the strength of our political system triumph unhampered by the natural reaction against extremists such as yourself.

To bid you peace would be your worst nightmare. You have no use for a world without war. And so I will refrain and allow you to stew in your own self-created hell without my encouragement.

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There is no taoist

USAPatriot

Tao,

I'd call that demonizing. Dismiss it if you will, but they are your words, not mine, and it was most recently Clinton's liberal policy that put us where we are. My concern for any country's public opinion vanished the moment a Saudi Prince handed Mayor Guiliani a 10 Million dollar check. Just like you, he made the mistake of believing that the US and it's policy is for sale. Do you have the letters "PC" tatooed on your ass? It's fairly clear to me where your priorities lie...it's in getting along, in the totally naive notion that fair play begets fair play. I'm here to tell you that 8 years of fair play netted us 9/11, the culmination of a plot that was hatched and planned during the wimpiest policy years in my lifetime. Frankly, turning the other cheek is not an option, and my only complaint with President Bush's policy is that he is not nearly as tough on the enemy as I would be. They made a choice. You should as well. -Rod-

taoist

Yes, they certainly are my words, Rod, but they fall far short of demonization. Your reliance on the strawmen put forward by the radical right has left you blindly defenseless against an actual attack by a true liberal. This was in actuality very mild criticism and did indeed incorporate an obvious solution, albeit one you're unwilling to countenance.

When you're up against an enemy recruiting fighters faster than you can kill them, it's time to rally allies, preferably amongst those already in the field with a natural stake in the outcome: fellow muslims.

There is indeed a fundamental weakness in the liberal position in that its proponents feel constrained to present reasonable arguments based on facts, unlike the intellectually bankrupt ravings of the Ann Coulter crowd. But even within these constraints, an actual demonization is quite possible. Allow me to demonstrate.

[gloves off]

• 
  George W. Bush is a traitor, directly bought and paid for by both the House of Saud and the bin Laden family. It is documented fact that his father's familiar name in the Saudi Royal household is Bindar Bush. It is documented fact that W's personal fortune is owed to financing by the bin Laden empire. It is documented fact that he has covered up, opposed and stalled all investigations into the true nature of 9/11, openly and publicly hiding evidence of collusion by the Saudis.
  
  It is documented fact that with the heart of the al Qaeda organization directly in his sights, he deliberately moved needed resources away from the actual fight in Afghanistan and contiguous areas of Pakistan in order to enrich his father, his vice president and his political contributors with no bid contracts bought with the blood of true American patriots.
  
  Meanwhile he has used up and overextended our troops in a needless war in order to weaken our actual ability to wage a meaningful battle against terrorism in hopes of extending the conflict long enough to ensure his reelection. It is documented fact that having expended all of our available regular army and reserve units, he is presently stripping our nation of its national guard units to feed his need for troops in evidence of the utter lack of contingency planning required of the commander in chief, leaving us even more defenseless against an increasing domestic menace.
  
  His calumny goes beyond that of the worst useful idiots of the fight against communism. It is documented fact that he and his administration have lied to the American people repeatedly and continuously in justifying a unilateral invasion of Iraq based on a non-existent nuclear threat while evading his clear responsibility to protect our nation and our people from the threats embodied by North Korea, the only foreign government currently in possession of both the motivation and ability to supply nuclear arms to our most dreadful foes.
  
  George Bush is our worst conceivable enemy. In mindless evangelic zeal while claiming to take orders directly from God, he advances the cause of Satan himself, hoping to fulfill the worst cataclysmic prophecies embodied in the Book of Revelations to assure the quick return of his hypothetical savior in an end times holocaust entirely of his own devising.

[/gloves off]

That Rod, is demonization based strictly on the facts. And if you need to get your jollies imagining the sight of a decorated male ass, I suggest you talk to Jim cause this homey don't play that.

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There is no taoist

Elli

Hey Tao How is the radical strawberry?

taoist

And now we return to the regularly scheduled program ...

Poem 35

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There is no taoist

taoist

Hey, Elli!


MWWWWAAAAAHHHHH!!!!


How's my favorite new mommy? Have you updated the baby site with new pics? (Hint, hint)

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There is no taoist

Cali/Yank

let's start here...Can you bring forth W's w2s? can you show in print all the companies and owners that the Bushes have dealt with and what years and who they where? Since you mentioned Bectel in Boliva, who are the main players there, in country...
The people who are directlty involved and not some figure head in washington.

__________________
Blame the enept and puritanical elite of the CIA and FBI and DEA,ATF.. for having their asses scratched by overlording over inconsequential, petty misgivings of the working class...instead of gathering intelligence on foriegn nations.