It's Happening Global Discussion Forum - TAOIST'S TAO TE CHING THREAD..

06-04-2003, 05:57 PM	#16
a_nonconformist Guest Posts: n/a	...been wanting to ask you Taoist..do you live in Maryland and is your name Joel? NASA ring a bell?

06-04-2003, 07:30 PM

#17

taoist

Radical strawberry

Join Date: Dec 2002

Age: 51

Posts: 473

a_nonconformist

Quote:

...been wanting to ask you Taoist..do you live in Maryland and is your name Joel?
NASA ring a bell?

No, absolutely not, and she swore she was 18. Let it go. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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06-04-2003, 07:49 PM

#18

taoist

Radical strawberry

Join Date: Dec 2002

Age: 51

Posts: 473

There are plenty of good reasons for derivative works on the Tao Te Ching, I'll be the first to admit. A number of the poems are overtly political references to the rulers at the time. Poem 19, for example, is actually a redaction from Chuang Chou referring to itinerant "professors" at the end of the Chou dynasty while the realm was disintegrating.

Poem 19

Quote:

Get rid of the wise men!
Put out the professors!
Then people will profit
A hundredfold over.
Away with the kind ones;
Those righteous men too!
And let people return
To the graces of home.
Root out the artisans;
Banish the profiteers!
And bandits and robbers
Will not come to plunder.

But if these three prove not enough
To satisfy the mind and heart,
More relevant, then, let there be
A visible simplicity of life,
Embracing unpretentious ways,
And small self-interest
And poverty of coveting.

How would a modern man know this passage was part of a diatribe against a select group of Confucian scholars?

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06-04-2003, 07:49 PM	#19
overwatch Pamwe Chete Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6,881	tao..I've always wondered about the there is no taoist tag...is that an exile thing? __________________ "A staccato-type repetition of the same old terms and accusations ad infinitum, which could come from a bot.", posted by Pispas to Non-Zionist Tsunami emergency relief donations

06-04-2003, 08:14 PM	#20
taoist Radical strawberry Join Date: Dec 2002 Age: 51 Posts: 473	The quick answer is no, I'm not an exile. When I came to this board, I lurked for a few months and then finally saw something I wanted to comment on enough to actually pick a handle. My first thought was to just use my name, Jesse. It's a good name, and I actually like it, but it lacked description. Then I thought I'd go for something mathematical, you know, Gaussian or something. Or Eulerfreak or something along that line. But no, this is board was created as a place to try talking to muslims. And besides, I didn't want to get "tagged" as an ivory tower type. And so, I decided to pick my religion. And then, there was that sig line in the user options. That was the easiest, it came unbidden, and I've never been tempted to change it. It said so many things simultaneously that I can't imagine finding something I'd like better. There is no taoist. As a taoist, I have no real existence. There is no taoist. The obvious symmetry with the atheist credo, "there is no god." There is no taoist. The heart of taoism, wei wu wei, is in finding the center of opposition between existence and non-existence. Having declared myself taoist, it was philosophically necessary to include the opposing thought. It's a mystic thing. There is no taoist. As I am, in actuality, Jesse, just another human trying to comprehend my fate, there really is no taoist. It's just a handle. Hope that helps. Surprised no one asked me before, actually. __________________ There is no taoist

06-04-2003, 08:31 PM

#21

overwatch

Pamwe Chete

Join Date: Jan 2003

Location: United Kingdom

Posts: 6,881

Quote:

Originally posted by taoist
The quick answer is no, I'm not an exile.

When I came to this board, I lurked for a few months and then finally saw something I wanted to comment on enough to actually pick a handle. My first thought was to just use my name, Jesse. It's a good name, and I actually like it, but it lacked description.

Then I thought I'd go for something mathematical, you know, Gaussian or something. Or Eulerfreak or something along that line. But no, this is board was created as a place to try talking to muslims. And besides, I didn't want to get "tagged" as an ivory tower type. And so, I decided to pick my religion.

And then, there was that sig line in the user options. That was the easiest, it came unbidden, and I've never been tempted to change it. It said so many things simultaneously that I can't imagine finding something I'd like better.

There is no taoist. As a taoist, I have no real existence.

There is no taoist. The obvious symmetry with the atheist credo, "there is no god."

There is no taoist. The heart of taoism, wei wu wei, is in finding the center of opposition between existence and non-existence. Having declared myself taoist, it was philosophically necessary to include the opposing thought. It's a mystic thing.

There is no taoist. As I am, in actuality, Jesse, just another human trying to comprehend my fate, there really is no taoist. It's just a handle.

Hope that helps. Surprised no one asked me before, actually.

Good answer my friend...I'm sure that you surf the waves of life in such a way as it treats you to the quality surf that few enjoy.

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"A staccato-type repetition of the same old terms and accusations ad infinitum, which could come from a bot.", posted by Pispas to Non-Zionist

Tsunami emergency relief donations

06-05-2003, 06:35 PM

#22

a_nonconformist

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally posted by taoist
a_nonconformist
No, absolutely not, and she swore she was 18. Let it go. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Ok then, i had to ask cause you're posts remind me soooooo much of a guy I know who does atmospheric testing for NASA in Brazil.
(lives in Maryland as i mentioned) oh well, your similarities in wit are striking, but then again, its just a message board.

06-05-2003, 10:48 PM

#23

2.718281...

bonding experience

Join Date: Mar 2003

Location: on the pond playing hockey with my son.

Age: 42

Posts: 608

Quote:

Originally posted by taoist
Or Eulerfreak or something along that line. But no, this is board was created as a place to try talking to muslims.

Hey now... Euler is my [R]euler.

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Art (in fact) changes the world - not immolation...
What constitutes Hell?
#31: Failing to realize that blowing up your rivals doesn't solve the problem.

06-06-2003, 12:02 AM

#24

taoist

Radical strawberry

Join Date: Dec 2002

Age: 51

Posts: 473

Tonight's meditation ...

Poem 33

Quote:

It is wisdom to know others;
It is enlightenment to know one's self.

The conqueror of men is powerful;
The master of himself is strong.

It is wealth to be content;
It is willful to force one's way on others.

Endurance is to keep one's place.
Long life it is to die and not perish.

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There is no taoist

06-06-2003, 12:21 AM	#25
Ono The Grand Damme Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 16,852

06-08-2003, 02:56 PM

#26

taoist

Radical strawberry

Join Date: Dec 2002

Age: 51

Posts: 473

For today ...

Poem 45

Quote:

Most perfect, yet it seems
Imperfect, incomplete:
Its use is not impaired.
Filled up, and yet it seems
Poured out, an empty void:
It never will run dry.

The straightest, yet it seems
To deviate, to bend;
The highest skill and yet
It looks like clumsiness.
The utmost eloquence,
It sounds like stammering.

As movement overcomes
The cold, and stillness, heat,
The Wise Man, pure and still,
Will rectify the world.

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06-08-2003, 03:01 PM	#27
Claire Guest Posts: n/a	Love the poem, taoist..... Isn't it interesting....that it distinguishes between "Man's perception" by the use of the words such as "seems"....but in fact, it describes a perfect god....

09-19-2003, 01:40 AM

#28

taoist

Radical strawberry

Join Date: Dec 2002

Age: 51

Posts: 473

The Tao of taoist

Dave Miller

Quote:

taoist

Are some humans born morally deformed? What then are we to make of a "broken bowl"?

Again, I go back to existential theology to answer this. It is not the true nature of the bowl to be broken. A broken bowl can be angry, upset, feel defeated, even give up on living due to its brokenness. But, if the broken bowl can understand that its true nature is to not be broken, it will find hope, and in that hope it may thrive, even in its brokenness.

There are harmonies between Christian sacred Scripture and others. For me, its not a matter so much of looking beyond, but looking deeply within, to find the true harmonies, rather than choosing these scriptures while ignoring those, etc.

To limit one's self to what appears to be literal understanding is to really, really cripple God. I know of a church that, on retreat, spent an entire weekend meditating on "Let the peace of Christ reign in your heart," from Collosians. Imagine the depth and beauty that can come from that. Glancing at it literally, and preventing any interpretation whatsoever, robs the text of its power, and the reader from interacting with the Holy Spirit in the reading.

I actually have great respect for Jainist spirituality. To consider life so precious that walking barefoot is important so as not to accidentally squash a bug is admirable. But, admire it as I do, I'm still a meat eater...

Dave

Dave,

While I've edited together portions of three of your separate posts in this response, I hope that I've remained true to your original intent. In each "far-reaching, return" we come closer to the whole within the void. Allow me to respond from the heart of poem 11, whose truest meaning can only be perceived through the same form of meditation you've described above.

Quote:

So advantage is had
From whatever is there;
But usefulness rises
From whatever is not.

With a vegetarian diet comes the loss of certain biases against seeing other life as part of a spectrum of consciousness. Humans presently reside at the top of the karmic scale here on earth, but they have not always been, nor do I believe they will they always be, the highest form of karmic life on earth. There will arise a species spiritually greater than ours, eventually. This, I would argue, is both natural and spiritual truth.

I agree that our akarmic nature is to be at one with something greater than ourselves, to be greater than we are in our natural selves. I hesitate to call this essential unity a god for fear of generating disharmony, as It fulfills few of the standard attributes ascribed to the God of monotheistic religions.

My Tao encompasses the sense that It is eternal in that It resides outside our purely temporal consciousness. It is powerful as It unites in itself all consciousness, not exclusively that of humanity. But It is entirely impersonal in nature. It is not loving or just except in as much as the whole of consciousness itself fulfills these qualities.

Evidence for this can be seen by the existence of those "broken bowls" we see around us who must struggle against greater or lesser impediments in their personal Taos. I cannot explain why pedophiles or child molesters exist any better than I can explain the genetic mutations which give rise to acephalous pregnancies. But, as they do exist, they are certainly natural. In their spiritual existence, we can hope they strive to discover their akarmic nature. But in their natural existence, it is left to us to judge their harm and seek to restrain it.

I have said before that the existence of a divine creator is irrelevant to my religion. Not that it's irrelevant to my existential self, but that such a being is too far removed from what I can naturally comprehend for me to ascertain its existence.

Tao Te Ching, poem 1

Quote:

There are ways but the Way is uncharted;
There are names but not nature in words:
Nameless indeed is the source of creation
But things have a mother and she has a name.

The secret waits for the insight
Of eyes unclouded by longing;
Those who are bound by desire
See only the outward container.

These two come paired but distinct
By their names.
Of all things profound,
Say that their pairing is deepest,
The gate to the root of the world.

In peace.

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09-28-2003, 04:54 PM	#29
pandora Guest Posts: n/a	That was beautiful I was coming off another tread in which I grizzled about the virgin birth and its complex meanings to mankind and then I read such a lovely post. It couldn't have come at a better time for my muddled mind. There are always more answers beyond. Thank you.

09-29-2003, 12:08 AM

#30

taoist

Radical strawberry

Join Date: Dec 2002

Age: 51

Posts: 473

Re: That was beautiful

Originally posted by pandora

Quote:

I was coming off another thread in which I grizzled about the virgin birth and its complex meanings to mankind and then I read such a lovely post. It couldn't have come at a better time for my muddled mind. There are always more answers beyond.

Thank you.

You're most welcome, Pandora. Thank you as well.

Since this thread's been resurrected, at least temporarily, I'd like to share tonight's meditation.

Poem 8

Quote:

The highest goodness, water-like,
Does good to everything and goes
Unmurmuring to places men despise;
But so, is close in nature to the Way.

If the good of the house is from land,
Or the good of the mind is depth,
Or love is the virtue of friendship,
Or honesty blesses one's talk,
Or in government, goodness is order,
Or in business, skill is admired,
Or the worth of an act lies in timing,
Then peace is the goal of the Way
By which no one ever goes astray

In peace.

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